Dual Winchester Extruder Setup

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Rlstein
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:55 am

Dual Winchester Extruder Setup

Postby Rlstein » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:58 am

Hi,
I just finished mounting another Winchester G2 on my series 1 2014 on my way to dual extrusion. This is the first application so it is a little rough around the edges so there is a lot to clean up especially the wires it looks disgusting.

I just have a couple questions if anyone could help me finish up.

Questions:
I hooked up the second extruder driver motor and ran it through the E1 and I want to double check which exact port that comes out on the new board. I have the new board up by the extruder which isn't labeled like the old one. I have it plugged into the one right under the E0 extruder.

I need to know which one is the Auxiliary port also.

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I also have no idea what I am doing in the sdk so I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction how to setup the software portion to activate and make the second extruder usable.

I have included pictures I know it looks rough and needs lots of cleaning up, but it is a base to work off. If anyone wants step by step rundown of how it was constructed I can provide that along with the fan holder, spacer, and top piece stl.

I will update this as I make progress!

Thanks in advanced!
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Rlstein
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:55 am

Re: Dual Winchester Extruder Setup

Postby Rlstein » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:42 am

Finished the new top piece cleaning up the look a lot. Hopefully in the next week have some prints to show. If anyone has any input or suggestions please shout.

Thanks.

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AndrewRutter
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:33 pm
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Re: Dual Winchester Extruder Setup

Postby AndrewRutter » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:20 am

Impressive.

Some information you need to know:
The second E socket is the one right below the first one. The AUX is the SL socket facing downwards.
The AUX socket includes a GND pin, (its the square pad, closest to the back of the machine). You currently have the heater connected to that GND, which is commoned to several other ground pins on the board and multiple conductors on the FFC, as well as ultimately the ground on the RUMBA and hence the PSU.
All the RUMBA outputs are low-side switched and as such you cannot drive the heater in that current configuration, you will be creating a dead short and the heater will be the only thing limiting the current draw.

More importantly

The FFC cable has a rating of 800mA per conductor, allowing for the self resistance of the cable as well as the cartridge heater, the design uses 5 conductors in each direction for the heater.

To be very clear, in your current configuration, you will be drawing at least 1.6A on a single conductor, more than double the rated current for that conductor.

I strongly recommend against this you are highly likely to destroy the cable and potentially the PCB or other related parts. Obviously that would be a fire hazard.

The cabling was never designed to drive 2 heaters.

Rlstein
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:55 am

Re: Dual Winchester Extruder Setup

Postby Rlstein » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:27 am

thankyou actually that solves the problem I was having. I will have to go about it another way.

AndrewRutter
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:33 pm
Contact:

Re: Dual Winchester Extruder Setup

Postby AndrewRutter » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:56 am

No problem.

I hope it doesn't hold you back from figuring out a solution, Yours is a novel design and the RUMBA and the PSU could both drive the second heater without issues.

I can provide schematics if you need them (the boards are open, we have just never published them).

Rlstein
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:55 am

Re: Dual Winchester Extruder Setup

Postby Rlstein » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:31 pm

You could provide them if possible that would be nice for the future. I think the route I am going to take is just to hardwire in the heater and run the thermistor only through the cable. It honestly shouldn't look to out of place with running just two wires mounted to the cables.

Rlstein
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:55 am

Re: Dual Winchester Extruder Setup

Postby Rlstein » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:30 pm

Update:
Fixed the heater issue. I direct wired it into the rumba and ran two 18 gauge wires along the ribbon cables directly into the rumba. I used some nifty 3m adhesive cable clips attached to the ribbon cable to route it. It looks messy, but does the job until I figure out a better cleaner way. Since the situation with the wiring in the aux port I still ran the thermistor through it to lessen the amount of wires i needed to run.

Started first print and success. The only thing that needs to be modified is alignment of the hot end in marlin. The way I put the two winchester extruder has so many benefits especially how close they are to one another. If I would have mounted them side to side it would have taken up to much room. Stacking them I did makes their surface area minute and far more efficient cooling. I honestly can't think of anyway better to add another extruder to the series 1 2014. What I think the best way to do it would to extend the original metal heatsink and just add another hot end into it. Then through gearing drive the extrusion with one nema 14 through gear changes. The only other addition I may make after cleaning this up would be a liquid cooling block sandwiched between the two heat sinks.

If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.

Also once again thank you especially for the info on the Aux port saved me a lot of time and possibly another rumba who knows that tends to happen. I will add pics of more prints as I go.
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Rlstein
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:55 am

Re: Dual Winchester Extruder Setup

Postby Rlstein » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:54 pm

Success. Aligned. I only have a few settings in simplify3d to modify. I will post some more detailed prints tomorrow when I work on it. Over it for the day. Thanks again for the aux port info. I would still appreciate the schematics in case i try to redo the wiring to make it look better.

Edit: I will make and add a dual spool holder tomorrow.

Any suggestions or questions please comment.
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Rlstein
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:55 am

Re: Dual Winchester Extruder Setup

Postby Rlstein » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:26 am

I will post a step by step guide complete with items needed, STL's, and SDK modifications since I have finished it.

Rlstein
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:55 am

Re: Dual Winchester Extruder Setup

Postby Rlstein » Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:59 am

Here are the STLs for the project I will try to write up a guide in the next week. Sorry for taking a hot minute to get back to this.

PS The holes in the Extruder top piece are slightly off. They are within a 1mm so you just widen them out with a screw driver. I recommend printing it on its side. I will get together all the require crew sizes and quantities.
Attachments
Dual Winchest STLS.zip
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